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Yeah, I'm no fan of abortion either.

You see, this is where CS has the high ground over your argument. What makes one human more valuable than another? You say "a scientist or a super brain physicist. I say there is inherent dignity and value in the lowliest of humans equal to that of the greatest. This is where the historical Jesus shined as an example for all who claim the high ground. He said the first shall be last and the last shall be first. The great shall be brought low and the low shall be exalted. I'm not a Christian, but this is where the Christian message shines as well.

Jedi if all any one's religion is a matter of " My Idea's are better than your idea's" then is that anything BUT man made dribble?

Defending a religious position is implying it's own weakness and must be helped out by attacking someone with different ideas.

Clean Sword you are the typical "defender" of your religious ideas... Weakness always attacks it's critics.

Are you sure that you want to take that position?

I believe in "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. An inalienable right endowed by the creator. That is a religious position.
If someone came into my house threatening my family's life, am I not suppose to defend them? Yeah, in that particular situation, I would really attack someone with a different
idea until he saw the error of his ways.

Now, in your case, you might say, "Let's discuss this, because I don't agree with your position" as they are taking body bags out of your house.

This is real life, NBK, not just an intellectual debate.

clean'

It has to do with morally superior views. Which would you prefer the human race adopt, ideas that lead to human misery or ideas that uplift the human spirit and promote peace and harmony? Now, I'm not saying that I believe that all Christian doctrine is uplifting, but the things I mentioned earlier in this thread are laudable, IMO.

Roselyn was promoting eugenics... COME ON! EUGENICS! she basically said that scientists and physicists are more desirable than a snotty nosed brat (I.E. the average person). Jesus taught that all humans are valuable and he defended the weak from the strong. I think those are morally superior ideas and worth promoting.

Clean your version of god is comparable to helpless women and children... see my point.

Jedi, I agree with you completely. I was trying to point the failed ideas of Clean and mis-stated it.

CleanSword has a thorn in his side called Obama, and CS wants to throw stones, which he and his RW party politics can't even target without hitting themselves Right between the eyes. Using eugenics was his attempt at righteousness, trying to show his snub-nosed supremacy while undercuting the actual value of manipulation within everything that is called "life". He doesn't accept the fact that stirring the mixture has already produced physically better humans and life in general through medicine and technologies. And even though he knows he himself is a form of that manipulated humanity he still sets himself apart from it in his hypocrisy. Even his religion has been manipulated via new interpretation of his God. Whereas once there was a psychopathic self serving blood-thirsty entity of hate in the OT, the Christians manipulated that idol into a new idol of Jesus love. "COME ON! EUGENICS!" ?? Yes JMT, and even you are part of that manipulative process. That's why, if you have children, you made sure they were vaccinated and received other proper medical care to insure their "life" without disease and death. You participated in the manipulation of the gene pool to ever extent possible for you individually. Even the very food you eat has its form of eugenic manipulation. From birth to death it's an ongoing process. And sometimes by law when parents neglect to participate in eugenics as outlined by required standards of human behavior.

I'm sure you've seen the growing number of televised ads promoting better health through manipulation of the gene pool. All have warnings to their side effects but all are in experimental phases with humans as the eugenic pigs. Even the age old Bayer aspirin that relieves pain and discomfort is now promoted as a preventive against heart attack. So, when CS takes a swip at his perceived sworn enemies, he should really be looking at his own so-called evil ways in participating in eugenics. And, I'm sure that CS and you to JMT want a healthier, happier future for your children and grandchildren through the manipulative process of eugenics instead of "snotty-nosed" brats that grow up to be useless adults, for we're not only talking about the body but also the mind.

btw, Jesus taught his Jewish brethren how to prolong their life on earth by obeying their laws and minding their own business in their own religion of Judaism. And his sympathy, his pity, his love, was a manipulative teaching process for good due to the cruel and inhuman enviroment wherein he lived among his Jewish brethren. Changing of mind[spirit] and heart[flesh] would cause a superior form of human isntead of the snotty-nosed brats continuing the ruinous road to useless humans, of which God said were only fit to be burned. So, the idea of Jewish prophets was eugenics and developing a more perfected human. Defective humans were frowned upon, the poor were cast as the defective and blemished, the blind as the stupid and uneducated. The perfect Jew was seen through the eyes of eugenics.

So your point is that Jesus was saying all men are equal?

Hmmmm.......it comes to mind that you are talking about a Jesus message......not a Christian message.

And there is reason to doubt that Jesus meant exactly that......(if he did indeed say it in the first place).

Some humans are more valuable than others. Indeed, some are so UN valuable that they negatively impact the world in great ways.

Some humans are so valuable that they positively impact the world in great ways.

Being a brainy scientist has little to do with it. Clearly, some scientists have been less than valuable.....in fact, have been horribly destructive.

Just a few thoughts.

If a child in your house was very ill and medically needing a blood transfusion, but your "belief" was that the transfusion was not needed because a supernatural being would cure the illness. However, neighbors realizing how desperate the situation was called the department of social services. The state court mandates the blood transfusion and the person recovers completely. Whose ways were in error and in need of correction?
As you say "this is real life":

Using your reasoning, you could attack the state workers attempting to help the ill child.

Also you use the term "liberal" over and over, but provide no definition of that term. Tell us what you mean when you use the term liberal.