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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:03 am 
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Roselyn wrote:
There are far to many cases of children knowing things about the lives of other people, other people living in distant places and of no relation to the childs family. Children don't speak of another persons history and get that history correct through "coaching". They can just start talking about what they know as if everyone else knows it. However, I don't know if these things could be labeled as reincarnation or just some sort of extraordinary brain development that gives these type insights.
You are right, Roselyn, there are other paranormal explanations for such things. Some have postulated that these children are tapping into the collective unconscious and "reading" these events of some past person's life, but Occham favors the simplest explanation. And also James told of inter-life happenings (things that occurred after he died as the pilot and before he was born into this life) as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:19 am 
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RND wrote:
doc wrote:
They are Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun


Correct! Now, what does verse 18 have to do in setting up Jesus' parable?


(RE: Luke 16:18) ) It seems to me that Jesus was referring to the Pharisees love for money, having put away their faith in God to 'marry' Mammon, thereby committing 'adultery' against their faith in God.

Now answer me this: From your perspective, how do these questions relate to the topics of reincarnation and resurrection?

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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:09 am 
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doc wrote:
(RE: Luke 16:18) ) It seems to me that Jesus was referring to the Pharisees love for money, having put away their faith in God to 'marry' Mammon, thereby committing 'adultery' against their faith in God.


Verse 18 deals with adultery.

Luk 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from [her] husband committeth adultery.

Quote:
Now answer me this: From your perspective, how do these questions relate to the topics of reincarnation and resurrection?


Because it illustrates the problem and danger of accepting a thought (reincarnation) not taught or found in scripture. What does the Bible call those that have accepted the knowledge that God imparts in favor of false gods and religions?


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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:12 am 
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Jedi Mind Trick wrote:
To me that sounds like more of a denial of resurrection than it does reincarnation.


Read verse 15 again. Take everything as a whole, not in part.

"You shall call, and I will answer You; You shall desire the work of Your hands."

Sounds like a resurrection coming to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:18 pm 
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You are an ostrich, RND. But that's okay you are entitled to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:34 pm 
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RND wrote:
Verse 18 deals with adultery.


Of course it does, but are you looking at it literally, like in a marriage between a man and a woman? or are you looking at in the context Jesus is using it, which is adultery within the 'marriage' between the Bride (a.k.a. the Church) and the Bridgroom (a.k.a. Jesus Christ)?

Seems to me, my interpretation above fits the context of the parable...

And while we may not find the word "reincarnation' in Scripture, the underlying concept or belief thereof is most certainly found within its passages...and it is accepted by those who are able to recognize and receive it through their faith in Jesus Christ...(re: Matthew 16:19)

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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:13 pm 
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doc wrote:
Of course it does, but are you looking at it literally, like in a marriage between a man and a woman? or are you looking at in the context Jesus is using it, which is adultery within the 'marriage' between the Bride (a.k.a. the Church) and the Bridgroom (a.k.a. Jesus Christ)?


How does the HS tell you Jesus was using this reference?

What other way is adultery used in characterizing actions against God? For example, when the COI accepted other gods and philosophies and followed after them what did God call that?

Eze 23:35 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

Hsa 2:2 Plead with your mother, plead: for she [is] not my wife, neither [am] I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts;

Hsa 4:13 They sacrifice upon the tops of the mountains, and burn incense upon the hills, under oaks and poplars and elms, because the shadow thereof [is] good: therefore your daughters shall commit whoredom, and your spouses shall commit adultery. Hsa 4:13 They sacrifice upon the tops of the mountains, and burn incense upon the hills, under oaks and poplars and elms, because the shadow thereof [is] good: therefore your daughters shall commit whoredom, and your spouses shall commit adultery.

Quote:
Seems to me, my interpretation above fits the context of the parable...


In your mind...

Quote:
And while we may not find the word "reincarnation' in Scripture, the underlying concept or belief thereof is most certainly found within its passages...


Such as...

Quote:
and it is accepted by those who are able to recognize and receive it through their faith in Jesus Christ...(re: Matthew 16:19)


I agree with Matthew 16:19 and disagree the Bible says anything about resurrection.


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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:16 pm 
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Jedi Mind Trick wrote:
You are an ostrich, RND. But that's okay you are entitled to it.


Thank you. Recognizing another's right to be wrong without having our own fragile self-image damaged is key. It also prevents useless name calling.


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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:25 pm 
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RND,
There's something you should be aware of if you want to have meaningful discussions with folks on this forum.

Most of us know the Bible, and some know it very well.

Many of us who have posted here through the past years came from different backgrounds, but we came with similar mindsets, in that we believed "Our beliefs about Christianity [were] are the only valid beliefs, while everyone else's beliefs are [were] totally wrong."

For example, JW's, Mormon, SDAs, Pentecostals, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Congregationalists, and Presbyterians, just to name a few, have all expressed their beliefs here, many of which conflicted with the beliefs of others.

And - this is important - each and every single individual who posted could pull out Scriptures to support their own particular set of beliefs.

This should tell you something about the Bible, in that it can and is used to promote and support any number of set beliefs, and this is further revealed by the some 20,000 sects and denominations within the Christian faith alone, sects and denominations which are mostly at odds with one another.

The thing is, as I see it anyway, is that each and every belief system is totally valid, as long as it promotes and supports life, as opposed to promoting and supporting death or "anti-life".

But to believe everyone else is wrong or is in error, while thinking we have the only valid and true interpretive understanding of Scripture, is absurd and arrogant beyond imagination and belief.

Now I am not saying I am right in all this, but in order to make sense of all the many different sects and denomination within the Christian faith, I have often compared the many sects and denominations associated with the Body [Universal Church] of Christ, to the many tissues and organs associated with the human body, where each tissue and organ supports that body according to its own [innate] "rules and regulatory functions", functions which cannot be performed by other organs [denominations] and tissues [sects]. I do this because I believe we have been created in the image of God, yet at the same time I understand this created image as a doctor who understands the parts and functions of the human body.

I understand that we must have separate and distinct organs and tissues. I understand that we must have livers, kidneys and hearts that function only as livers, kidneys, and hearts. At the same time, however, the kidneys should not war with the liver because it does not function in the same way as do the kidneys, nor can all the organs act in the same way as the heart or the skin. There must be differences and there must be deliniation, and yet there must be mutual cooperation, especially if the body [church universal] is to survive in optimum health.

In the same manner, we must have JW's, Mormon, SDAs, Pentecostals, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Congregationalists, and Presbyterians, etc. who act in good faith towards one another, as each of these represent a specific aspect (organ or tissues, eg.) of the Body of Christ. And when we work in harmony to support and maintain the whole body, by accepting others will have differing beliefs that are just as important as our own, then the body will live in good health. But as soon as one organ or tissue steps out of line, thinking itself to be more important than the others, or that it has the only true and valid answers on how to live or believe, then the entire body enters into a diseased state of being, much like how the entire world now seems to be in conflict...

It is in this light that we must, at least, seek to be more accepting of the beliefs of others, lest we cause unnecessary discord, strife, and ill-health within the [church] body.

Having said all this, I am reminded of the following anecdote:
Quote:
When the Lord made man, all the parts of the body argued over who would be boss.

The brain explained that since he controlled all the parts of the body, he should be boss. The legs argued that since they took man wherever he wanted to go, they should be boss. The stomach countered with the explanation that since he digested all the food, he should be boss. The eyes said that without them man would be helpless, so they should be boss. Then the asshole applied for the job. The other parts of the body laughed so hard at this that the asshole became mad and closed up.

After a few days...

The brain went foggy, the legs got wobbly, the stomach got ill, and the eyes got crossed and unable to see. They all conceded and made the asshole boss.

This proved that you don't have to be a brain to be boss...

Just an A**shole.


The point of all this is "Don't be an a**hole by thinking your beliefs are the only true and valid beliefs". Try to understand that there are other beliefs which are just as valid as your own, and that they too play a role towards ensuring the health of the body.

doc ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:14 pm 
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doc wrote:
Try to understand that there are other beliefs which are just as valid as your own, and that they too play a role towards ensuring the health of the body.


There's is only One truth - the man, Jesus Christ. If we speak not according to His Word and His commandments then we are not walking in truth or in light.

Psa 119:105 NUN. Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

1 Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 1 Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:25 pm 
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I daresay there are few who will disagree with those verses, although some may object to how other folks use and express 'em...

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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:59 pm 
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doc wrote:
I daresay there are few who will disagree with those verses,


Maybe.

Quote:
although some may object to how other folks use and express 'em...


As the saying goes, "Truth hurts."


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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:05 pm 
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Perhaps, but one should not revel in the ability to inflict hurt when endeavoring to reveal a given 'truth'.

Rather, it seems, the hurt should be in the form of self-sacrifice so that others might experience a more abundant life in the light and revelation of that truth...

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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:44 am 
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RND wrote:
doc wrote:
(RE: Luke 16:18) ) It seems to me that Jesus was referring to the Pharisees love for money, having put away their faith in God to 'marry' Mammon, thereby committing 'adultery' against their faith in God.


Verse 18 deals with adultery.

Luk 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from [her] husband committeth adultery.

Quote:
Now answer me this: From your perspective, how do these questions relate to the topics of reincarnation and resurrection?


Because it illustrates the problem and danger of accepting a thought (reincarnation) not taught or found in scripture. What does the Bible call those that have accepted the knowledge that God imparts in favor of false gods and religions?


How do you explain Jesus saying about John: "this is Elijah, if ye will accept it". ?? Was John Elijah who was prophesied to come before the dreadful day of the Lord? Jesus used the OT scriptual saying to support his claim of being the one who should come. So it seems that accepting the reincarnation of Elijay via John was a belief of Jesus.


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 Post subject: Re: Resurrections?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:00 am 
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Posts: 1558
doc wrote:
RND,
There's something you should be aware of if you want to have meaningful discussions with folks on this forum.

Most of us know the Bible, and some know it very well.

Many of us who have posted here through the past years came from different backgrounds, but we came with similar mindsets, in that we believed "Our beliefs about Christianity [were] are the only valid beliefs, while everyone else's beliefs are [were] totally wrong."

For example, JW's, Mormon, SDAs, Pentecostals, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Congregationalists, and Presbyterians, just to name a few, have all expressed their beliefs here, many of which conflicted with the beliefs of others.

And - this is important - each and every single individual who posted could pull out Scriptures to support their own particular set of beliefs.

This should tell you something about the Bible, in that it can and is used to promote and support any number of set beliefs, and this is further revealed by the some 20,000 sects and denominations within the Christian faith alone, sects and denominations which are mostly at odds with one another.

The thing is, as I see it anyway, is that each and every belief system is totally valid, as long as it promotes and supports life, as opposed to promoting and supporting death or "anti-life".

But to believe everyone else is wrong or is in error, while thinking we have the only valid and true interpretive understanding of Scripture, is absurd and arrogant beyond imagination and belief.

Now I am not saying I am right in all this, but in order to make sense of all the many different sects and denomination within the Christian faith, I have often compared the many sects and denominations associated with the Body [Universal Church] of Christ, to the many tissues and organs associated with the human body, where each tissue and organ supports that body according to its own [innate] "rules and regulatory functions", functions which cannot be performed by other organs [denominations] and tissues [sects]. I do this because I believe we have been created in the image of God, yet at the same time I understand this created image as a doctor who understands the parts and functions of the human body.

I understand that we must have separate and distinct organs and tissues. I understand that we must have livers, kidneys and hearts that function only as livers, kidneys, and hearts. At the same time, however, the kidneys should not war with the liver because it does not function in the same way as do the kidneys, nor can all the organs act in the same way as the heart or the skin. There must be differences and there must be deliniation, and yet there must be mutual cooperation, especially if the body [church universal] is to survive in optimum health.

In the same manner, we must have JW's, Mormon, SDAs, Pentecostals, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Congregationalists, and Presbyterians, etc. who act in good faith towards one another, as each of these represent a specific aspect (organ or tissues, eg.) of the Body of Christ. And when we work in harmony to support and maintain the whole body, by accepting others will have differing beliefs that are just as important as our own, then the body will live in good health. But as soon as one organ or tissue steps out of line, thinking itself to be more important than the others, or that it has the only true and valid answers on how to live or believe, then the entire body enters into a diseased state of being, much like how the entire world now seems to be in conflict...

It is in this light that we must, at least, seek to be more accepting of the beliefs of others, lest we cause unnecessary discord, strife, and ill-health within the [church] body.

Having said all this, I am reminded of the following anecdote:
Quote:
When the Lord made man, all the parts of the body argued over who would be boss.

The brain explained that since he controlled all the parts of the body, he should be boss. The legs argued that since they took man wherever he wanted to go, they should be boss. The stomach countered with the explanation that since he digested all the food, he should be boss. The eyes said that without them man would be helpless, so they should be boss. Then the asshole applied for the job. The other parts of the body laughed so hard at this that the asshole became mad and closed up.

After a few days...

The brain went foggy, the legs got wobbly, the stomach got ill, and the eyes got crossed and unable to see. They all conceded and made the asshole boss.

This proved that you don't have to be a brain to be boss...

Just an A**shole.


The point of all this is "Don't be an a**hole by thinking your beliefs are the only true and valid beliefs". Try to understand that there are other beliefs which are just as valid as your own, and that they too play a role towards ensuring the health of the body.

doc ;)



Excellent post Doc. If I weren't an atheist, I just might consider myself an A**hole. :lol:

The administration of the body[church] cannot function properly without difference of opinion in that THAT difference must be argued in order to bring forth a more perfect truth, and a way out of error. One might say an escape clause is provided for error, wherein a thing called "grace" is applied. Else, the body would become stagnant and ineffectual, eventually so diseased it would die.


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