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 Post subject: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:31 pm 
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Questioning Terrorists — With Compassion

By Larry Elder





http://www.JewishWorldReview.com | "I am absolutely convinced (banning waterboarding) was the right thing to do," said President Obama at a recent press conference, "not because there might not have been information that was yielded by these various detainees who were subjected to this treatment, but because we could have gotten this information in other ways (emphasis added), in ways that were consistent with our values, in ways that were consistent with who we are."


Once upon a time, critics of the Bush administration's alleged used of "torture" often argue that it simply does not work. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, for example, once said, "Experts agree that you do not obtain reliable intelligence through using these tactics and you diminish our reputation in the world, which hurts the cooperation we need to collect the intelligence we need to protect the American people."


Over the objection of his CIA director, the President publicly released the so-called torture memos. They described the allegedly abusive interrogation techniques used by the Bush administration. But the President's national intelligence director, Adm. Dennis Blair, recently wrote a memo to his staff. "High value information," he wrote, "came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qaida organization that was attacking this country." When Blair's memo was released, that quote had been deleted.


The Blair memo also said, "I like to think I would not have approved those methods in the past, but I do not fault those who made the decisions at that time (emphasis added), and I will absolutely defend those who carried out the interrogations within the orders they were given." Not exactly string 'em up, trial to follow. The document release also deleted that quote.


The CIA recently said it stands by a 2005 Justice Department memo on "enhanced interrogation" techniques — including waterboarding — used on al-Qaida leader and mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, which caused him to reveal information that allowed the government to thwart another attack. This 9/11-style attack — called the "second wave" — planned to crash a hijacked plane into a building in Los Angeles.


Former Clinton administration Deputy Attorney General and current Attorney General Eric Holder, in a 2002 interview, said, "One of the things we clearly want to do with these prisoners is to have an ability to interrogate them and find out what their future plans might be, where other cells are located." The Geneva Conventions, Holder noted, place restrictions on interrogations. Holder argued that if we want our own prisoners treated well, we should treat the detainees humanely and in a manner consistent with the Geneva Conventions. But he pointed out, "It seems to me that given the way in which (these terrorists) have conducted themselves, however, that they are not, in fact, people entitled to the protection of the Geneva Convention. They are not prisoners of war."


Who said the following?


"Although I am personally opposed to the use of torture, I have no doubt that any president — indeed any leader of a democratic nation — would in fact authorize some forms of torture against a captured terrorist if he believed that this was the only way of securing information necessary to prevent an imminent mass casualty attack." — Alan Dershowitz, op-ed piece in The Wall Street Journal, Nov. 7, 2007.


Who said the following?


"Every one of us can imagine the following scenario: We get lucky; we get the No. 3 guy in al-Qaida, and we know there's a big bomb going off in America in three days and this guy knows where it is. We have the right and the responsibility to beat it out of him." — former President Bill Clinton, Sept. 24, 2006.


Obama, after conceding that the "enhanced interrogation" techniques produced valuable and perhaps lifesaving intel, says we could have gotten it in other ways. Such as…?


* Make the terrorist stand on one leg for 4 1/2 hours and sing, in Farsi, "Do the Hokey Pokey."

* Tell the terrorist that Dick Cheney just flew into Pakistan for a little bird hunting.

* Tell the terrorist that Osama bin Laden decided to pack it in, hired the William Morris Agency and plans to host a reality show called "Dancing With the Mullahs."

* Tell him that Osama bin Laden's No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahri, has converted to Judaism.

* Threaten to give him two front-row tickets to a Los Angeles Clippers basketball game.

* Paste on the terrorist's prison cell ceiling a Photoshopped picture of Helen Thomas in a thong bikini.

* Tell him that Cat Stevens has returned to Christianity and that Flavor Flav has become a Muslim.

* Make him sit through an entire Joe Biden speech.


The campaign and election ended. Obama won. He serves as commander in chief in the real world. If a terrorist refuses to divulge information that could save hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands of lives, what, pray tell, "other way" does the President envision?

Comments?

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/elder050709.php3

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:13 pm 
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What a crock of fetid dingos kidneys.

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:54 pm 
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Uh, how many furlongs per fortnight is that? :D Do you suppose he really believes crap like that?

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:09 am 
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There is something really creepy about Jews who promote torture. Something not quite loyal to the interest of American Gentiles in Jewish propaganda that stirs up hatred and war that non Jews are expected to fight while Jews are made exempt. There's something strangely freaky about supposed American patriotism when an Israel first policy says to non Jewish people "you can expect your children to die". When Americans get over their idol worship of Israel[the Jews] then maybe we can actually have peace and no religious wars and no torture of people based on their difference of religion.

Obama serves as commander and chief of the U.S. military. He is not the most powerful man in the world. He recognizes his limits whereas Dubya did not, and look where the decider got us. Need I mention a needless attack on Iraq, the killing of over one million Muslims plus over 5000 American and other allied soldiers?

Torture of any human or animal is cruel and shows a lack of conscioiusness. Meaning, it shows a sick and disconnected mentality. Using "what ifs" as a ploy to justify torture is showing an enabling and desirous lust for sadistic pleasure.


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:00 am 
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Cleansword.......the power of the Dark Side is strong.

Resist the compulsion to join them.....use the Force!!!

:mrgreen:

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-- Henry David Thoreau


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:28 am 
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The Real Logos wrote:
Cleansword.......the power of the Dark Side is strong.

Resist the compulsion to join them.....use the Force!!!



:mrgreen:


You do like me..... :) You do like me !

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:23 am 
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Like is a strong word.

But "pity" might work.

I have compassion for the less fortunate.

It's the Godly way to be.

Pax!
8-)

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The fate of the country does not depend on how you vote. The worst man is as strong as the best at that game.....it depends instead on what kind of man you drop from your chamber into the street every morning.
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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:47 pm 
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Maybe if I'm real good, I can at least get on your list of "tolerated"...

I'm trying awful hard.

clean'

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:55 pm 
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I already tolerate you (offensive as you may be).

What I don't tolerate is you supporting and promulgating hate and hate speech.

Pax!
8-)

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The fate of the country does not depend on how you vote. The worst man is as strong as the best at that game.....it depends instead on what kind of man you drop from your chamber into the street every morning.
-- Henry David Thoreau


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:56 pm 
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The Real Logos wrote:
I already tolerate you (offensive as you may be).

What I don't tolerate is you supporting and promulgating hate and hate speech.

Pax!
8-)


What was hateful about that article? The article was just asking how King Obama intends
to get info from terrorists. And how does he know that he can get that info by any other
less offensive means?

clean'

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:25 pm 
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Should a Christian support torture?

Christians often live in conflict with the world around us. At this present time this conflict is clear when it comes to the question of torture. Some in authority around us would have us believe that torture is an acceptable means for gathering information, especially when someone labeled a terrorist holds that information. However as Christians we are bound not to accept that argument.

In the following paper I will look at the reasons I believe that Christians should not support torture.

Humans Made in God’s Image.

In Genesis 1:27 we are told that human beings are made in God’s image. We are, according to the Genesis story, the special creation of a loving God, further in Genesis 9:6 this principle is extended (by implication) to all human beings. Christians have always considered that God has endowed us with certain inalienable rights and that God shows us the value of humanity, firstly, in creating us and, secondly, in becoming one of us in the Incarnation.

Because a human being is of infinite worth to God we cannot disfigure, torment or harm another person also made in God’s image and also of infinite worth.

Do not vex the Stranger in your midst.

Time after time the Old Testament reminds us that God has a compassionate concern for the vulnerable in our midst, the widow, the orphan, the stranger all these are recipient’s of God’s special interest. God condemns any form of injustice that further marginalizes these already hurting folk who are at the mercy of the society around them.

We are called to recall our own vulnerability and to remember that we too were once strangers in a strange land, lacking support and seeking justice rather than injustice and oppression. (Ex 22:21; Ex. 23:9; Lev. 19:33 & 34; Deut. 10:18-19.)

All human life is God’s gift.

We are reminded in Psalm 139:13; Psalm 22:10 and Jeremiah 1:5 that all human beings are formed in the loving concern of God. All those who live and move and have their being do so in the grace and compassion of God. When we deliberately damage them, as we do in torture, we mar and afflict the plan of God for these folk; we sin against them and against God who brought them forth from the womb alive.

Further torture fails the test of the Great Commandment to love others as we love ourselves and is condemned in Matthew 25: 31 ff., where Jesus quite clearly says that when we hurt, afflict and torture someone we are doing it to him. Again, torture is a breach of 1 Corinthians 13 and a profound failure of morals.

Moreover torture does not just warp the tortured but also the torturer, in ordering the torture of a human being we are responsible not just for damage done to the victim but also to the person who is our tool in carrying out the torture.

We turn, by accepting torture, ordinary human beings into sadists and potential murderers for information that most often is given solely to stop the pain being inflicted. As well torture inevitably affects the moral standing of the society and nation which allows it. Once begun it is difficult to stop, one used on ‘terrorists’ from outside of a society, it is hard not to use it on dissenters within the society.

In summary then, torture demeans and damages humans who were purposed by God, who are loved by God and for whom Christ lived and died. It is a breaking of both Old and New Testament commandments and a damage to the moral structure of both individual human beings and the society that uses and enables it. For these reasons I do not believe that a Christian can ever support torture.

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:18 am 
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That sounds noble, but these were not ordinary human beings, they were sadists and murderers already.
We were trying to get information from them so that they wouldn't do it again to the real innocent
human beings.

If someone had kidnapped your family, and intended to kill them, what would you do if you had captured
a person who knew where your family was, and refused to tell you?

clean'

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:58 am 
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Clean Sword wrote:
That sounds noble, but these were not ordinary human beings, they were sadists and murderers already.
Not ordinary human beings? Christians are in conflict with the very words of Jesus "If someone hits you on the cheek...etc." and "Love your enemies... etc." There is no "but if" in those commands.


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:39 am 
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Cleansword, being a hate-monger, will not understand that.

His Jesus (Saul/Paul's invented "Christ") is a murderer.

Pax!
8-)

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The fate of the country does not depend on how you vote. The worst man is as strong as the best at that game.....it depends instead on what kind of man you drop from your chamber into the street every morning.
-- Henry David Thoreau


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Terrorists - With Compassion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:17 pm 
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Tells you a lot about a person to see which parts of the bible they keep and which ones they ignore.


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