Is this Unconstitutional?

JFerric · **Joined:** Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:29 am **Posts:** 100

Quote:

Wake judge orders home schoolers into public classrooms

Posted: Mar. 12, 2009
Updated: Mar. 14, 2009

Raleigh, N.C. — A judge in Wake County said three Raleigh children need to switch from home school to public school. Judge Ned Mangum is presiding over divorce proceeding of the children's parents, Thomas and Venessa Mills.

Venessa Mills was in the fourth year of home schooling her children who are 10, 11 and 12 years old. They have tested two years above their grade levels, she said.

"We have math, reading; we have grammar, science, music,” Venessa Mills said.

Her lessons also have a religious slant, which the judge said was the root of the problem.

"My teaching is strictly out of the Bible, and it's very clear. It is very evident so I just choose to follow the Bible,” Venessa Mills said.

In an affidavit filed Friday in the divorce case, Thomas Mills stated that he "objected to the children being removed from public school." He said Venessa Mills decided to home school after getting involved with Sound Doctrine church "where all children are home schooled."

Thomas Mills also said he was "concerned about the children's religious-based science curriculum" and that he wants "the children to be exposed to mainstream science, even if they eventually choose to believe creationism over evolution."

In an oral ruling, Mangum said the children should go to public school.

"He was upfront and said that, 'It's not about religion.' But yet when it came down to his ruling and reasons why, 'He said this would be a good opportunity for the children to be tested in the beliefs that I have taught them,'" Venessa Mills said.

All sides agree the children have thrived with home school, and Vanessa Mills thinks that should be reason enough to continue teaching at home.

"I cannot sit back and allow this to happen to other home schoolers. I don't want it happening to my children,” Venessa Mills said.

Mangum said he wouldn't talk with WRAL News Thursday about the details of the case because he hasn't issued a written ruling yet. He said he expected to sign it in a few weeks.

An estimated 71,566 students were taught at home during the 2007-08 school year, according to figures released by the state Division of Non-Public Education. The enrollment amounts to about 4 percent of students ages 7 to 16 in North Carolina – students in that age range are required by state law to attend school. About two-thirds of the schools classified themselves as religious schools.

Home school students and their parents plan to come to Raleigh on March 24 to lobby at the state Legislature. They want to demonstrate they have a strong voice regarding education.
Retrieved from: http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4727161/

Even from my position as a nontheist it seems this judge is interferring with this woman's Constitutional right to "religious freedom."

Roselyn · **Joined:** Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:57 am **Posts:** 1554

Rather, isn't the judge interferring with the definition of "school"? And if he orders Mills children into public school, wouldn't that set the president for ordering all schools to go public, iow, religious private schools? I think the judge will backoff this one. Else he's not smart enough to continue being a judge.

Bud · **Joined:** Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:16 am **Posts:** 34

All home schools, religious and non-religious alike, should be illegal and banned.

From my personal observation for every one child who appears to do well, there are 5 others who "graduate" from home schools who are clearly dumb as rocks, lucky if then can even sign their own names.

Spare me the stories about your kids or kids you know. Overall, home schooled kids are dunces totally unprepared to assume a responsible role in society.

Kudos to Judge Ned Mangum!

Jedi Mind Trick · **Joined:** Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:21 am **Posts:** 376

They are not even being exposed to mainstream science... It's a good thing for those kids that the bible isn't against math and reading.

Ham On Rye · **Joined:** Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:19 am **Posts:** 82

JFerric,

“Religious Freedom” does not provide one can do anything under the cloak of claiming it is practicing their religion. The Government steps in regarding certain actions. Polygamy and the Mormons is a great example. Indians and Peyote is another.

Be that as it may, this is not so much a Constitutional issue, as much as a parenting issue. In a divorce situation, the court is left with the task of determining what is the best interests of the child. If one parent insists on Public schools, and another insists on home-schooling—in the absence of an agreement, some person in a black robe makes the decision for them.

It always amazes me when parents can’t get along to the point they prefer a judge to “rule” over their lives and make parenting decisions about their children. Literally.

“I want to pick him up at 7.”
“No, you pick him up at 7:30.”
“Well, then I will pick him up at school.”
“No, you pick him up at the house.”
“What about picking him up at McDonald’s?”
“You let him eat McDonald’s? That stuff is horrible!”
”I didn’t say we would eat there, just a drop-off point.”
“Fine, you can pick him up when and where the judge orders it!”

They want some judge, who couldn’t care less as to whether the child is picked up at 7, 7:07, or 7:57, nor where—to make the decision.

As I said—amazing.

Now the judge is placed in the difficult position of determining where to send these kids (because the parents cannot be mature and actually think about their kids enough to make their own decisions—“Me, Me, Me!”) and no matter what s/he does, will be lambasted by somebody for being a total buffoon for making the decision they did.

Sad.

Look at the facts of this case. HE objected to his kids being pulled from public school. Yet that was four (4) years ago—did you catch that? Where has he been for four years? Did this suddenly become a problem? Why?

SHE wants them to be home-schooled because it is in line with her religious affiliation. (Did you wonder what the husband’s religious affiliation was? Or whether she changed after the divorce?)

Too little information to go on here. Just enough for a sensationalized story: “Judge orders home schoolers into public classrooms.”

The Real Logos · **Posted:** Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:21 pm

I'm with Bud.

Protect the kids from FundaGelical brainwashing.

8-)

Roselyn · **Joined:** Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:57 am **Posts:** 1554

Hamm is correct, there's to little info to go on. But in the info provided we can assume the mother wants her religion as part of home school for her kids. Now, if she's a bible belt Christian she won't be teaching scientific evolution, she'll be teaching ID and the earth and man created in six days. And imo, she has the right to teach them in her religious belief. Just as Jewish kids are taught in their Jewish belief which imo is extremist in the extreme. Would you agree to dragging a kid out of its Jewish school and into a mixed Gentile school? Are Jewish kids dunces?

She could very well teach them exceptionally in all the other areas of schooling but her kids will be fundamentalists at the core. And isn't the same thing true for Catholic kids in regard to their religious teaching?

She and her ex are the parents. They probably should never have married to begin with since they can't come to a comfortable decision on schooling their children. Maybe they should be fined for being so irresponsible in having kids?

I don't see anything that can be done to "protect" the kids from fundagelical brainwashing of their "born-again", "gods chosen", or whatever other religious teaching. But..and this is the best part. The kids when adult learn really fast that they are cut from the cloth of pure BS as they intermingle with the real world. Their eyes are popped open in shock and awe. They learn they are not the only humans on the planet.

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Is this Unconstitutional?

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