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The word I would choose is: “reluctant inability to deny my mind its penchant for recognizing what must be.”

Clean Sword, do you remember learning to ride a bike? The training wheels were taken off with trepidation. The first few pushes of the pedal made with ever-increasing wobbles. (Or, in the case of my poor children, flying down a grassy hill with the bike slowly leaning farther and farther to one side before the inevitable crash and dad calling, “Let’s do it again!”) At one point—you got it. A little unsteady at first, but soon faster and faster and with more confidence.

Now, you hop on a bike and do not even process the thoughts of how to stay balanced. You just do. You cannot unlearn how to ride a bike, even if you wanted to.

I was a Christian for 32 years. I loved it. Loved Jesus. Did the whole bit. Wife and kids are Christians. Most of my family is Christian. (No longer “all.”—had a coupla deconverts over the past two years.) I had absolutely no desire to be a non-Christian, let alone a non-theist. Why should I? I considered atheists wrong, immoral, hardened, unforgiven, miserable and alone. Nothing attractive about their world.

Through the internet, I became engaged with skeptics, non-believers, non-theists and people of just about every theistic belief imaginable. They raised questions and arguments new to me. So I started studying…and reading…and thinking.

Those questions could not go away. I could no more “un-learn” them after hearing them, then I could “un-learn” how to ride a bike. Eventually, it became clear some of the things I had previously believed had strong arguments against their being true. So I utilized a methodology I use elsewhere in my life to determine what is more probably true: What would convince a neutral party?

To my utter shock and horror, when utilizing this method I used everywhere BUT my theistic belief, I discovered there was much I believed that would never be convincing to a neutral party. I had no concept as to unsupported theism is. That it comes down so much to culture and preference.

This was terrifying, as I feared the inevitable loss of Christianity. (Not realizing how much I would lose!) These arguments couldn’t be true; Christianity MUST be the truth. How can so many millions of people believe in it if it was false? I studied harder, read more and thought on theism almost constantly.

To make a long story short—the more I studied the worse it became. My mind could not continue to believe what it recognized as false. Once the methodology was established, as I turned it on general theism or deism or any other god-belief—those too fell. I became an atheist because I had no choice—I could not make my mind believe in a god any more than I could make my mind “forget” how to ride a bike.

Not to raise an otherwise dead horse, I will utilize your use of Kalaam’s as an example. Yes, I know the argument; but I also know the problems with the argument. I know the philosophical shortcomings and even more importantly, the failure to recognize what science actually claims.

So when you bring it up (as much as it may seem compelling to you) my brain kicks in and thinks, “We cannot observe beyond the First Planck second, let alone ‘prior’ (which is the wrong word, since there is no ‘prior’) to t=0.” Or “What method do we use to extrapolate the ‘cause’ from the universe?” or “The universe is unique as to ‘begin to exist.’’ or “The phrase should be ‘our universe’ not everything.” Or problems with Craig’s definition if infinity and conflation of relational time with total time. Or that things do begin to exist without apparent causes.

My brain cannot make those questions disappear. It cannot find a compelling response from the theist. Given the TOTAL picture, I do not see it convincing a neutral party. Therefore my brain reluctantly says, “Not convincing” and remains atheist.

Clean, it is not a story, but a world-view, based on how the human mind works. We begin with something of a Socratic question for you: Do Unicorns exist?

The answer to that question depends on who you ask. My seven year old grandaughter
would say "yeah, I've seen one on TV". MY four year old grandson would likely say, "I
don't know." My answer is "I've never seen one, but, I haven't seen all the animals in the world yet."
I suppose that a Unicorn could exist in one's mind, in his imagination.

clean'

If you didn't need physical evidence for your belief in God for your 32 years as a christian,
why do you now depend on it to disavow His existence?

clean'

Good answer Clean. Take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicorn A Unicorn is a " mythological creature." Which leads to my next quesiton: What does the term "myth" mean to you?

But I DID use physical evidence as (partial) proof for the belief in a God. *confused* I just didn’t fully appreciate the other side’s position regarding what physical evidence we have.

Perhaps you should get your hearing checked.

It reads that way too JFerric. Guess I'd better make an eye appointment as well.

Glad you understand the issue is yours, not mine.

I see the art of subtlety is being killed by the internet…

. . .and yet "veiled sarcasm" thrives. Out of necessity perhaps?

I once went to a site to check my IQ..after the test, I realized it couldn't have been too
high, because I was asked to take a survey before I found out the answer. After about
an hour, I quit..Maybe, it was a self-evaluation test. Later, I decided I wasn't going to do that anymore.

Is this a survey or are you going to give me your worldview about what you believe?

To answer your last question, the word "myth" to me means something that is not true.


clean'

Clean, relax a bit. What you asked for is not a simple or easy thing to explain, and certain predicates are called for. Your answer about myth, seems to me to be based on the current "bastardization" of english by the MSM(main stream media). They are doing to the word myth, the same thing they did with the word parmeter. So let me offer you an alternative meaning of myth; here are the four functions of myth according to Joseph Campbell(including the Eisley quote):


As the risk of creating more twists in your knickers, we must now ask; what is the source of a given myth?

What physical evidence (partial) did you use for a belief in God?

Would you tell me what denomination you belonged when you left?

A brief personal story.

When I was six months old, I had a terminal illness. Eventually, I was given 30 minutes to live.
MY mother and grandmother, not aware of how bad the situation was, got down on their
knees and prayed for me.

Before they got back on their feet, God had completely healed me.

That was 64 years ago.

Physical evidence is not the only evidence..

clean'

All praise goes to Shiva, right?