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WHAT I WISH I HAD KNOWN DURING MY YOUTH

How I recovered from a 12 year nervous breakdown (1966-78) I’m 70 years old

My name is Rodger Tutt. I am 70 years old. I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches.

You can access my website through Google by typing in hope4you rodger tutt, or
My website is http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

You can also access most of the following writings through Google by typing in the title.

BOOKS THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION,
THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF WHICH CAN BE READ ONLINE

If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into the address bar.

0. ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute ... hrist.html
1. HOPE BEYOND HELL - Gerry Beauchemin (recently published)
http://hopebeyondhell.net/Revised_Edition.pdf
2. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm
3. THE BIBLE HELL - J.W. Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html
4. THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT – Thomas Thayer
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html
5. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – Dr. Loyal Hurley
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/infinitegrace.htm
6. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN "HELL" - J. Preston Eby
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... d/hell.htm
7. ONE HUNDRED SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST WILL SAVE ALL MANKIND - Thomas Whittemore
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html
8. TWENTY-FOUR SERMONS ON UNIVERSAL SALVATION – John Bovee Dods
http://www.tentmaker.org/Bovee2.htm#Top
9. THE SECOND DEATH AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
http://www.tentmaker.org/restitutionindex.htm
10. ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY REASONS FOR BELIEVING IN THE FINAL SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND – Erasmus Manford
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/150reasons.html
11. THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS – J. Patching
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/RichMana ... ching.html
12. BIBLE TRANSLATIONS THAT DO NOT TEACH ETERNAL TORMENT – Gary Amirault
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html
13. AION – AIONIOS – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
14. BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr ... ained.html
15. THE CASE OF JUDAS, ETCETERA
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter16.html
16. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html
17. HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE – James Coram
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchie ... index.html
18. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/jukes2.html
19. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – George Hawtin
http://www.godfire.net/restitutionHawtin.html
20. THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES – J. Preston Eby
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm
ESPECIALLY THIS ONE IN THAT SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... larity.htm
21. THE PURPOSE OF EVIL
http://thegloryrd.com:80/apadams/evil.html
21. TEN REASONS NOT TO BELIEVE THE TEACHING OF ETERNAL TORTURE
http://www.completerestorationinchrist. ... s-not.html

You're the kind of person you meet at certain dismal, dull affairs
Center of a crowd, talking much too loud, running up and down the stairs
Well, it seems to me that you have seen too much in too few years
And though you've tried you just can't hide your eyes are edged with tears

You better stop, look around
Here it comes, here it comes, here it comes, here it comes
Here comes your nineteenth nervous breakdown

And your point is?

Hi there Rodger Tutt. I can't ever decide whether the name people use is "Rodger" or "Roger". I suppose it doesn't matter as long as you get your points across, right? Sorry to hear about your breakdown and hope you are all well now. Life can do that to you, you know. I just went through menopause and believe me, I have never felt so grateful for anything in all my life. Except I was told by my doctor that I now have arthurridace - (can't seem to spell that one correctly either.) Anyways, we humans sure have a lot to deal with when it comes to nerveous ailments it seems. And us females seem to be forced to endure more than the guys. I once had a panic attack, two years ago in February while I was watching the anti-Christ Bush give a state of the union address or something. I was terribly afraid but didn't know what I should do, so I turned off the TV. Strange don't you think?

So you're 70? Do you consider yourself old? Logos is oolld, real old. That's why he more often than not does those one-liners. I don't ever plan to get old but live to be 100. I figure that's long enough to outlive all my relatives. But then again I think that no, maybe it'd be better for me and the world if I just say - "take me away" and I drift off to peace in the valley, so to speak. Know what I mean? A universal fact of life is death. My brother is 72 and all he does is gripe about being old. I keep telling him its all in his head. He still mows his lawn with a push mower and has sex with his wife. She told me. Wanted to brag about it I suppose. I told her "that's scandulous" and that I didn't want to hear about her sex life, lumpy wrinkles and all. But she seemed proud of the fact that she can still "get it on" with "loverboy".

You probably won't stick around to offer any reasonable dialog will you? What do you do, just post your infomation on every forum you come across? Don't stick around to face the music, so to speak? That's ok. See ya, later.

Mildly interesting bedtime story.
What is it you want to dialog about?

Rodger - many of us here have, over the years, trawled through Tentmaker and the Universalist position. I left the Universalist notion a while back but am, after 20 years of holding to it, au fait with it.

GOTTCHA
OK I'll move on.
I have unchecked "Notify me when a reply is posted"
Thanks for not deleting my links
From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada

Anyone is welcome to believe anything they want to about what the Bible teaches. I posted on this forum to give people an alternate point of view. Had I known that one existed I never would have had a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78 over my inability to love a god who would allow anyone to WANT to or have to suffer forever rather than eventually reach out for the salvation that God has provided. I'm 70 years old now.

THE FOLLOWING HAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUE REGARDING THE DEBATE ABOUT ETERNAL TORMENT

The argument about “eternal hell” nearly always ends with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.
My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve. Copy and paste into Google
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS or click on
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html

If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.

But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that that is exactly what God is like.

ON THE BASIS OF HAVING STUDIED THE EVIDENCE AVAILABLE TO YOU CHOOSE ONE
Choose to believe that the Bible teaches that God will sustain people alive in an inescapable state of eternal suffering.
Or
Choose to believe that God will annihilate (cause them to cease to exist) anyone who does not become a Christian before they die.
Or
Choose to believe what the following expositors reveal about what the Bible teaches.
Copy and paste into Google
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html
Or
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute ... hrist.html
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm
Or
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm
Or
CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM
http://www.christian-universalism.com/links.html
Or
CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
http://www.christianuniversalist.org
Or
ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION?
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html
Or
THE DOCTRINE OF ANNIHILATION
http://hell-fact-or-fable.com/destruction3.html

I myself, along with many others with whom I am acquainted, simply cannot love a god who would let anyone choose themselves into an inescapable state of eternal suffering (Arminian), or suffer forever just because they were born into the human race (Calvinist). Neither can we love a god who would snuff us out of existence just because we didn’t hear about Jesus before we died.

But we CAN love a god Who, because of His Son’s death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, will sooner or later save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved (including their stubborn wills). That’s the God that the above expositors see in the Bible.
And that’s the God to Whom I joyously yield my heart in complete and total abandonment.

SO FOR US THE CHOICE IS EASY

See
How I recovered from a 12 year nervous breakdown (1966-78) I’m 70 years old.

I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches.

You can also access most of the following writings through Google by typing in the title.

BOOKS THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION,
THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF WHICH CAN BE READ ONLINE

If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into the address bar.

WHAT I WISH I HAD KNOWN DURING MY YOUTH

How I recovered from a 12 year nervous breakdown (1966-78) I’m 70 years old

My name is Rodger Tutt. I am 70 years old. I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches.

You can access my website through Google by typing in hope4you rodger tutt, or
My website is http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

You can also access most of the following writings through Google by typing in the title.

BOOKS THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION,
THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF WHICH CAN BE READ ONLINE

If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into the address bar.

0. ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute ... hrist.html
1. HOPE BEYOND HELL - Gerry Beauchemin (recently published)
http://hopebeyondhell.net/Revised_Edition.pdf
2. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm
3. THE BIBLE HELL - J.W. Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html
4. THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT – Thomas Thayer
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html
5. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – Dr. Loyal Hurley
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/infinitegrace.htm
6. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN "HELL" - J. Preston Eby
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... d/hell.htm
7. ONE HUNDRED SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST WILL SAVE ALL MANKIND - Thomas Whittemore
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html
8. TWENTY-FOUR SERMONS ON UNIVERSAL SALVATION – John Bovee Dods
http://www.tentmaker.org/Bovee2.htm#Top
9. THE SECOND DEATH AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
http://www.tentmaker.org/restitutionindex.htm
10. ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY REASONS FOR BELIEVING IN THE FINAL SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND – Erasmus Manford
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/150reasons.html
11. THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS – J. Patching
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/RichMana ... ching.html
12. BIBLE TRANSLATIONS THAT DO NOT TEACH ETERNAL TORMENT – Gary Amirault
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html
13. AION – AIONIOS – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
14. BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr ... ained.html
15. THE CASE OF JUDAS, ETCETERA
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter16.html
16. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html
17. HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE – James Coram
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchie ... index.html
18. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/jukes2.html
19. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – George Hawtin
http://www.godfire.net/restitutionHawtin.html
20. THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES – J. Preston Eby
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm
ESPECIALLY THIS ONE IN THAT SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... larity.htm
21. THE PURPOSE OF EVIL
http://thegloryrd.com:80/apadams/evil.html
21. TEN REASONS NOT TO BELIEVE THE TEACHING OF ETERNAL TORTURE
http://www.completerestorationinchrist. ... s-not.html

Roger, you believe in human sacrifice. You also believe in cannabalism?

On a Forum that has seen the likes of ProEvangelical, Petee, Vorkosigan, Logos, Coolhermit, doc, Little John, HarryTick, As I Understand it, Virginia, Woffie, Boo, Fritz, NBK, ChurchDropout, Mickey, Bud, .sola, Roselyn, bella, Stella, Roopster, Terebinth Tree, Bartok, Paulie, me and others I probably have forgotten…

It’s nice to see an “alternative” point of view once in a while…

He he he.

Hammie

Actually several of us went through all of the above a few years ago but we kept on moving forward.

From the biblical perspective and Jesus saying "many are called but few are chosen" would seem to cut out any universal scope that the Christians [Gentiles] envisioned. And to put a universal salvation to rest, Jesus said: "I am sent to none but the lost sheep in the HOUSE of Israel." If the HOUSE were indicating a universal vision of the whole world, then surely the story script would have said so. And of course the Christians manipulated the story so as it fits themselves into it's realm.

A universal salvation would have meant destruction of Judaism. Which probably was the aim of the Roman conspirators who thought to create a replacement theology. Proselytizing the Jews and converting them to Gentile theology was not what Jesus was doing. There is no evidence in the story that Jesus tried to found a new religion or teach people to join Gentile culture. His was not a universal, "anyone can join-up" campaign. His religion contained all the Jewish protocols in his tradition of Judaism, and which tradition was independent and not a shared ideology with Gentiles.

Did Paul teach a universal doctrine? Not that I can find. He preached within his Judaism and called it "according to my gospel". Paul held a different opinion of Judaism than his fellow Jews, the Pharisees and Sadducees, but he still remained a Jew. Paul didn't recruit people into Gentilism - "idol worship". He taught against it. Pauls gospel was his alone as he said he didn't build on another man's foundation. Maybe that's why he didn't talk much about Jesus but focused on how the administration of the church should be performed. But was Paul's idea of "church" universal and non Jewish? Doesn't read that way to me. Paul keeps the Jews separate from the Gentiles. Where's the universalism in that? Why and how he did this, was his conspiracy; a conspiracy that held purpose in putting a fence around Jerusalem, a protective barrier for Jews and death to Gentiles in the form of a munipulated ideology - a new gospel. A few twists here and there and the magic would be accepted. The Gentiles could always use one more God in their collection and Paul saw the ways and means to give them what they wanted. He'd give them hope in the Jewish god , the god that would keep them condemned forever.

Paul had made a vow to kill the new sect of Jews that followed Jesus. To retreat from that vow would have meant his death. It was a Jewish thing, (OT), a thing that once sworn one was obligated to do.

Points to ponder in Pauls gospel to the Gentiles:

As the Gentiles received the spiritual things, should they not also contribute to the physical things? In other words, the Gentiles should contribute to the Jews at Jerusalem. Food, money, whatever in support to protect the welfare of Jews. The fence in its protective barrier is being built.

"The Jew first and then the Gentile", plays on the manipulation of Gentiles. Nothing relating to this manner of Jewish indulgence in the OT, but "usery" is the permitted element of survivalist supremacy.

If Paul had been serioiusly considering Gentiles as converts to Judaism, he would have insisted on their obedience to circumcision and laws.

The story doesn't provide evidence that Paul was killed by his Jewish fellows in Pharisees or Sadducees, and the story tells of Jewish rabbi's visiting Paul in Rome. Paul probably had more than a few fellow conspirators helping him work his magic on ignorant Gentiles.

A universal gospel of salvation? Read the OT.

Ham, you overlooked Iasion (sp?) who made one single post that blew my New Testament ship right out of the water. Then Bud's follow up anti-Paul thingy left me bewitched bothered and bewildered - it took a while and then a better ship set sail

Coolhermit encouraged me to continue posting so here I am again.
Since members here reject the contents of the Tentmaker site I would like to quote from
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY instead
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/Underst ... %20One.htm
then scroll down to
5. The Apostles Taught Universal Salvation!

I also would like to tell a bit about my background.

My name is Rodger Tutt.
I live in Toronto, Canada, and I’m 70 years old.

I’m a Christian Biblical Universal Transformationist.
Before you brush off my assertion by saying “there is no such a thing,” think about the following

MY TRIBUTE TO RAY PRINZING

Ray Prinzing is my hero.
His writings can be Googled up and read online.
Just type in Ray Prinzing.

During my twelve year nervous breakdown caused by my inability to emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever in hell, every morning, as I washed my family’s dishes, I would listen to one of Ray Prinzing’s many tapes.

I have listened to 178 of them several times, and 23 of them many times

In addition to these tapes, I always read every issue of his periodical GOSPEL ECHOES which he later renamed LETTERS OF TRUTH and gleaned many pages of his writings into my personal journal.

Many people have a hero, someone in their life that made a contribution to their welfare so significant that it is far above the influence that anyone else has had.

Ray Prinzing is that hero to me.

For several years my 96 year old dad called me from his nursing home each evening. Each time he called I read a portion of my over four thousand page journal to him, and many of these readings are the gleanings that I wrote from Ray Prinzing’s writings and tapes. Many nights my dad fell asleep listening to one of Ray’s tapes.

As I listened to Ray’s tapes during my nervous breakdown (1966-78) I gradually became more and more sure that I was going to recover. The contents of his tapes gave me the courage, in 1978, to take a public stand that I believe that the Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. (I’m 70 years old now)

My panic attacks completely stopped.

And now I spend most of my time offering people, in various ways, the information that helped me recover and helps me stayed recovered, and I am pleased to report that I have a lot of evidence that the info I post has helped, and is helping many other people in the same way that it helped me.

Richard Condon's large library of prolific writings by dozens of Christian Biblical Universalists has been a great help to me too. I have loved soaking my brain in them many times through the years!
GOD’S TRUTH LIBRARY
http://www.gtft.org/Library/index1.html
and
IN THE GARDEN
http://www.gtft.org/InTheGarden/index.html

Ray Prinzing has now passed on, but his influence is so wide spread that he will not be forgotten on this earth for many, many years, if ever. And that is a very good thing!

Hi Rodger,

In your loyalty and praise of the late Mr. Prinzing, and in your devotion to the many websites you have directed us towards, I was wondering what place Psalms 118:8 holds in all this?

doc

Psalm 118:8 "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."

My inability to trust in a lord who would let anyone want to, or have to suffer forever instead of eventually reaching out for the salvation that God has provided through Jesus Christ is what caused my twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78. (I'm 70 years old now)

Ray Prinzing, and many others with whom I have become acquainted see in the Bible, and expound why they see in the Bible, an infinitely different God from the one that eternal tormentors see and teach.

GOD’S TRUTH LIBRARY
http://www.gtft.org/Library/index1.html

IN THE GARDEN
http://www.gtft.org/InTheGarden/index.html