How I recovered from a 12 year nervous breakdown

Roselyn · **Joined:** Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:57 am **Posts:** 1552

Coolhermit wrote:

The Jews may have concocted numerous laws but they also managed to concoct ingenious ways to evade those laws.

I agree CH. Even the rabbi's conclude the same today. Except they put it a little differently, saying, that the laws were made to be reinterpreted so as to conform to present day circumstances.

But that still doesn't excuse the Rabbi Scheerson giving 7 Noahide laws for Gentiles in America. Especially the one about "thou shalt not eat the flesh of a live animal", which was then explained as "thou shalt not be cruel to animals".

Or maybe the Rabbi was insinuating that Gentiles were animals and should not be cruel to each other.

Whatever. I hope he knows what he can do with his 7 invented Noahide laws. :roll:

rodgertutt · **Posted:** Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:35 am

The Real Logos wrote:

Quote:

Regarding the statement, "there is NO universal salvation as you have been taught to believe."

That's a true statement.
Universal salvation is an irrational belief.
The sites you cite are wildly imaginative distortions of what the Bible says. The overriding message of all Scripture is that there will punishment for intentional, unrepented and continued sin and logic and common sense supports those who believe those Scriptures.
Pax! 8-)

I was invited back by management today to keep posting.

Regarding the above message, all punishment will be corrective in nature.

Any “hell” that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionian," which means age-during corrective chastisement.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html

It is limited in duration, and corrective in purpose.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

Here is my opinion of what is "an irrational belief."
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... larity.htm

Jedi Mind Trick · **Joined:** Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:21 am **Posts:** 376

The Real Logos wrote:

Quote:

Regarding the statement, "there is NO universal salvation as you have been taught to believe."

That's a true statement.

Universal salvation is an irrational belief.

The sites you cite are wildly imaginative distortions of what the Bible says. The overriding message of all Scripture is that there will punishment for intentional, unrepented and continued sin and logic and common sense supports those who believe those Scriptures.

Pax!
8-)

You know Logos, I think you are right. I keep going back and forth on this issue. I think I should not have called Yahweh a tyrant for eternal hell being true. I shudder to think about the punishment that awaits. I fear for the greedy who are ruining the world's economy for their personal oligarchical gain. They are in for a rude awakening someday soon. But then, I must also watch my own steps and cultivate righteousness. It's not something I have a good track record on though.

rodgertutt · **Posted:** Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:03 am

Jedi Mind Trick wrote:

The Real Logos wrote:

Quote:

Regarding the statement, "there is NO universal salvation as you have been taught to believe."

That's a true statement.
Universal salvation is an irrational belief.
The sites you cite are wildly imaginative distortions of what the Bible says. The overriding message of all Scripture is that there will punishment for intentional, unrepented and continued sin and logic and common sense supports those who believe those Scriptures. Pax!

8-)

You know Logos, I think you are right. I keep going back and forth on this issue. I think I should not have called Yahweh a tyrant for eternal hell being true. I shudder to think about the punishment that awaits. I fear for the greedy who are ruining the world's economy for their personal oligarchical gain. They are in for a rude awakening someday soon. But then, I must also watch my own steps and cultivate righteousness. It's not something I have a good track record on though.

Not to worry. Justice will be served. Nobody gets away with deliberately choosing to hurt others. But the punishment will not be forever.
THAT IS WHAT WOULD BE UNJUST!!

Unlike humans with their so very limited desire and ability to actually "reform" criminals in a reformatory, God, the "Judge," has no limit to the scope of both His DESIRE (born of the fact that He IS love personified not just loving), and His ABILITY to actually achieve reformation in the heart of the sinner because of what Christ accomplished for all by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross.

God the "Judge," has the desire, the ability, and the determination, to sooner or later, successfully save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved.

This is the kind of God that we universal transformationists see in a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible.

When it comes to what the Bible teaches about it, the key issue is this. For aionion to mean "eternal" its noun form MUST mean eternal. It doesn't. Therefore there is no good Biblical argument against God saving all.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... slove.html

Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" in the Bible see the following:
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon3.html

Jedi Mind Trick · **Joined:** Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:21 am **Posts:** 376

I hope you are right, rodger.

rodgertutt · **Posted:** Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:37 pm

Jedi Mind Trick wrote:

I hope you are right, rodger.

rodgertutt · **Posted:** Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:17 am

rodgertutt wrote:

doc wrote:

Hi Rodger,
In your loyalty and praise of the late Mr. Prinzing, and in your devotion to the many websites you have directed us towards, I was wondering what place Psalms 118:8 holds in all this? doc

Psalm 118:8 "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."

My inability to trust in a lord who would let anyone want to, or have to suffer forever instead of eventually reaching out for the salvation that God has provided through Jesus Christ is what caused my twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78. (I'm 70 years old now)

Ray Prinzing, and many others with whom I have become acquainted see in the Bible, and expound why they see in the Bible, an infinitely different God from the one that eternal tormentors see and teach.

GOD’S TRUTH LIBRARY
http://www.gtft.org/Library/index1.html

IN THE GARDEN
http://www.gtft.org/InTheGarden/index.html

CORRECTLY TRANSLATED BIBLES

One of the important tools for believing that the Bible teaches universal
reconciliation is to use a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible. Here
are several. The ones on line you don't even have to pay for.

CORRECT TRANSLATIONS ONLINE

CONCORDANT http://www.concordant.org/about/index.html
http://www.concordant.org/version/index.html
YOUNG'S LITERAL http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/rylt/rylt.html

OTHER CORRECT TRANSLATIONS NOT ONLINE LISTED AT THE FOLLOWING THREE LINKS
http://www.members.cox.net/tmurr10/aswundivided.html#10
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Hell_ ... rever.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html

Or, if the links don't work, copy and paste into Google any of the following three titles

Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment

Chapter Ten - Bibles Without "Everlasting Punishment"

Hell is leaving the Bible forever

I think the Concordant Literal Translation is the most accurate.
Of the versions not online I like ROTHERHAM'S EMPHASIZED BIBLE the best.

Four scriptural expositions expounding UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION are found at

http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/doubts.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/1cor15.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/index.html
http://gtft.org/Library/condon/Question ... nswers.htm

Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" see the following:
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

All three of these articles should be studied with care, especially the third one.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon1.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon2.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon3.html
also see:
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/aion.html
http://concordant.org/version/tranprin.html

Roselyn · **Joined:** Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:57 am **Posts:** 1552

If no hell, what punishment would you believe justified? I haven't seen the explicit elements of justice in your tentmaker articles or links. Do you not know what your God stated as punishment for the wicked?

You do realize that you've presented Jesus as a liar, don't you?

rodgertutt · **Posted:** Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:37 am

Roselyn wrote:

If no hell, what punishment would you believe justified? I haven't seen the explicit elements of justice in your tentmaker articles or links. Do you not know what your God stated as punishment for the wicked?
You do realize that you've presented Jesus as a liar, don't you?

THE TRUTH ABOUT “HELL”

What Jesus really taught about "hell."
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesus ... nhell.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm

People who want to keep believing in the doctrine of "endless hell" will not read the following four articles.
But people who don't want to believe that the Bible teaches "endless hell" will read all four of them and will be filled with great joy at finding out the truth!

(If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into your address bar.)

What the Bible really teaches about "hell."
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... d/hell.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Hell_ ... rever.html

Regarding arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation, see
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr ... ained.html

Any “hell” that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionion," which means age-during corrective chastisement.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html

It is limited in duration, and corrective in purpose.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

Copy and paste into Google

tentmaker books chapter eleven
or
Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”
or
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS

Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" see the following:
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

All three of these articles should be studied with care, especially the third one.
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon1.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon2.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon3.html
also see:
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/aion.html
http://concordant.org/version/tranprin.html

Jedi Mind Trick · **Joined:** Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:21 am **Posts:** 376

I'm just glad that I don't ruminate over this nonsense anymore.

rodgertutt · **Posted:** Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:06 am

Jedi Mind Trick wrote:

I'm just glad that I don't ruminate over this nonsense anymore.

I take it that means that you used to ruminate over it?
Lots of people still do! That's why I post what I do.

My testimony contains information that, according to the many entries in my guest book, and the many positive emails in my email file folders, is helping many people. My guest book can be accessed towards the bottom of my front page at
http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

Also see the testimonies at http://www.tentmaker.org/visitorcomments.htm

Also see http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html

My guest book only holds 150 messages. Then the oldest ones are automatically deleted to make room for the newest ones.

SO MUCH SUFFERING is caused by the horrific false doctrine of endless suffering in hell, that it gives me great pleasure to guide people to the evidence that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches universal salvation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... larity.htm

We agree with fundamentalist Christians that we should not believe things that go against Biblical teaching. We don’t.

http://richardwaynegarganta.com/Underst ... %20One.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Bible-Proofs-modern.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/fewsaved.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unive ... -bible.htm

I'm 70, and I am acquainted with many people who are, or were in various stages of nervous breakdown over their inability to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever. Even though they have embraced Christ and His gospel, they are afraid of what God might do to them after they are raised from the dead for not being able to love Him. The information in my testimony has helped many of these people.

I myself suffered a twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) because of my inability to love an endless-hell god. I’m 70 now.

If any member or surfer on forums is suffering because they are unable to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God is going to let any creature suffer forever, they can Google up the search engine at the top of the TENTMAKER front page. Just type in a key word or phrase from each argument or scripture passages and ten articles will appear that refute the eternal hell and annihilationist doctrines.
Then click to the next page and ten more articles will appear, and so on and so on for many pages.
http://www.tentmaker.org/

Most fundamentalist Christians are not even aware that there are two sides to the argument about what the Bible teaches.
This debate nearly always ends with the words, "My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars," and the result is a stalemate.

If your readers think it glorifies God more to believe that He is going to let some of His creatures suffer forever, then they should keep believing that.
But if they think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need, which is a change in their stubborn will, then I would like them to know that that is exactly what the Bible teaches that God is like.

I am a Concordant Christian. I have read and recorded gleanings into my more than four thousand page personal journal from most of the back issues of UNSEARCHABLE RICHES that has been published back to 1909. Every argument that I have ever heard against the Bible teaching universal salvation have been repeatedly dealt with in these magazines.

http://www.concordant.org/unsearchable/ ... iches.html

Largely, but not exclusively, because of the contents in these magazines, I am convinced that the evidence in support of the Bible teaching universal salvation is irrefutable. That is why the argument that we should teach endless suffering in hell just in case it might be true is unacceptable to me. IMHO the greatest of all manifestations of God's grace in action on this earth is that anyone can believe in "eternal suffering" for anyone and not have a nervous breakdown thinking about it.

Here are several Concordant websites.
http://www.concordant.org/
http://www.saviourofall.org/
http://gtft.org/
http://www.tentmaker.org/

Regarding arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation, see
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr ... ained.html

Any hell that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionian," which means age-during corrective chastisement.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html

It is limited in duration, and corrective in purpose.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html

Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" see the following:
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

All three of these articles should be studied with care, especially the third one.
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon1.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon2.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon3.html

also see:
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/aion.html
http://concordant.org/version/tranprin.html

I also would like to leave you with one more link. I am going to guide you to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. Only he is more eloquent in telling his story than I am in telling mine. His name is Charles Slagle.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute ... hrist.html

It may begin to change your thinking.

The url of my own site is
http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

God bless you in your study!

Roselyn · **Joined:** Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:57 am **Posts:** 1552

Reinterpreting the words of Jesus to suit your adventure out of hell is nothing more than what non Christians have been saying all along - the story is fiction, a fabricated lie, based on the wickedness of men, who use it to weld power over the ignorant who have not investigated such claims as to God, hell, resurrection of dead corpses, heaven, etc.

As the fictictous story goes.. if there be no hell then no heaven is necessary and thereby no God to fear or love. This then cuts down the tree even more, chipping away at the bark until the tree eventually dies. Christianity is dying now, it cannot sustain itself in a losing enviroment. As with the car companies in restructuring themselves, so will be the final outcome of this illegitimate child of Judaism's wild imaginations.

rodgertutt · **Posted:** Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:47 am

Roselyn wrote:

Reinterpreting the words of Jesus to suit your adventure out of hell is nothing more than what non Christians have been saying all along - the story is fiction, a fabricated lie, based on the wickedness of men, who use it to weld power over the ignorant who have not investigated such claims as to God, hell, resurrection of dead corpses, heaven, etc.
As the fictictous story goes.. if there be no hell then no heaven is necessary and thereby no God to fear or love. This then cuts down the tree even more, chipping away at the bark until the tree eventually dies. Christianity is dying now, it cannot sustain itself in a losing enviroment. As with the car companies in restructuring themselves, so will be the final outcome of this illegitimate child of Judaism's wild imaginations.

And as the TRUTH goes

Any “hell” that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionion," which means age-during corrective chastisement.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html

It is limited in duration, and corrective in purpose.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" see the following:
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

Regarding arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation, see
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr ... ained.html

Good news of God's love for all mankind - find it here at Tentmaker
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/index.html
Quick Find: Links to Information on Hell and Universal Salvation
http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm

Jedi Mind Trick · **Joined:** Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:21 am **Posts:** 376

Rodger, I respect your form of christian belief. I used to be a universalist after a fashion similar to yours, but my peace was never complete because the bible itself is contradictory and to take it literally after any fashion causes me problems. Even if you focus on your interpretation of hell regarding the bible there are countless other atrocities mentioned in the bible that are laid at Yahweh's feet that you need to explain in light of Yahweh's alleged love for human kind. It is simpler for me to look at the bible as a collection of ideas about God, some good and some not so good.

rodgertutt · **Posted:** Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:33 am

Jedi Mind Trick wrote:

Rodger, I respect your form of christian belief. I used to be a universalist after a fashion similar to yours, but my peace was never complete because the bible itself is contradictory and to take it literally after any fashion causes me problems. Even if you focus on your interpretation of hell regarding the bible there are countless other atrocities mentioned in the bible that are laid at Yahweh's feet that you need to explain in light of Yahweh's alleged love for human kind. It is simpler for me to look at the bible as a collection of ideas about God, some good and some not so good.

For me it is very simple to justify all suffering because of my perception of what God is really like.

Sooner or later God is going to transform ALL suffering into something better that it happened for everyone - better than if it had not happened in the first place.
So when we look back from the point of view of the consummation of God's plans for the ages of time we all will agree that it was BETTER that everyting happened the way that it did - better than if it had not happened that way. I call it "universal transformation."

Dr Leslie Wetherhead exresses how I believe so well when he says
“God’s purposes are so vast and glorious, beyond all guessing now, that when they are achieved and consummated, all our sufferings and sorrows of today, even the agonies that nearly break our faith, the disasters that well nigh overwhelm us, shall, seen from that fair country where God’s age long dreams come true, bulk as little as bulk now the pieces of a broken toy upon a nursery floor, over which, thinking that all our little world was in ruins, we cried ourselves to sleep.”

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How I recovered from a 12 year nervous breakdown

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