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Mickey
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Post subject: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:46 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:04 am Posts: 584
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Right-wing hate speech claims another victim: Quote: George Tiller shot to death at Wichita church5-31-09 George Tiller, the Wichita doctor who became a national lightning rod in the debate over abortion, was shot to death this morning as he walked into church services.
Tiller, 67, was shot just after 10 a.m. at Reformation Lutheran Church at 7601 E. 13th, where he was a member of the congregation. Witnesses and a police source confirmed Tiller was the victim.No information has been released about whether a suspect is in custody. Police said they are looking for white male who was driving a 1990s powder blue Ford Taurus with Kansas license plate 225 BAB. Homicide detectives and Sedgwick County District Attorney Nola Foulston arrived at the church after the shooting. Members of the congregation who were inside the sanctuary at the time of the shooting were being kept inside the church by police, and those arriving were being ushered into the parking lot. Witnesses are being transported downtown for interviews and other members of the congregation are slowly being released from inside the sanctuary. Tiller has long been a focal point of protest by abortion opponents because his clinic, Women's Health Care Services at 5701 E. Kellogg, is one of the few in the country where late-term abortions are performed."We are shocked at this morning's disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down," anti-abortion group Operation Rescue said in a statement on its Web site. "Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning. We pray for Mr. Tiller's family that they will find comfort and healing that can only be found in Jesus Christ." Protesters blockaded Tiller's clinic during Operation Rescue's "Summer of Mercy" protests during the summer of 1991, and Tiller was shot by Rachelle Shannon at his clinic in 1993. Tiller was wounded in both arms, and Shannon remains in prison for the shooting.
Tiller's clinic was severely vandalized earlier this month. According to the Associated Press, his lawyer said wires to security cameras and outdoor lights were cut and that the vandals also cut through the roof and plugged the buildings' downspouts. Rain poured through the roof and caused thousands of dollars of damage in the clinic. Tiller reportedly asked the FBI to investigate the incident.Sgt. Bart Brunscheen of the Wichita Police Department said there has been no activitiy today at Tiller's clinic, although security crews were being brought in to make sure the building was secure. Officials also were going to check the clinic's security cameras to see whether there was any activity over night. Tiller and his clinic have faced continuous threats and lawsuits. A Wichita jury ruled in March that he was not guilty of illegal abortion on 19 criminal charges he faced for allegedly violating a state law requiring an "independent" second physician's concurring opinion before performing later term abortions. Immediately following the ruling in this criminal case, the Kansas State Board of Healing Arts made public a similar complaint against Tiller that was originally filed in December 2008. LINK Domestic terrorists masquerading as "pro-life"...........bastards.
_________________ Oops. My Karma ran over your Dogma.
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MessengerBoy
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 2:26 pm |
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Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:56 pm Posts: 258 Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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This was despicable act of cruelty and cowardice. There is no justification for this.
_________________ "For what is faith unless it is to believe what you do not see?" - Augustine
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Roselyn
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:56 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:57 am Posts: 1558
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This is what happens when the church forces(by shooting people) its beliefs onto other people. The problem with the shooter is that he took his religious belief outside the confines of his church body membership. As a Christian, he should have been taught that what the world does outside his church is none of his church business.
I don't know what the shooter was taught but from all the other stuff the church is trying to force on society, the shooter was probably like the character Phineas in the OT, and thinking to do his God a service. God would be pleased according to how the story goes, as bloodletting is a quality that's perscribed by the God of death. "Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins". God commands death of people within his own people.
These type incidents will continue to happen because the church[christianity] can't mind its own business and thinks to mind everyone elses business.
Maybe it will take a few super expensive settlements from the Christian Coalition and groups like it to disband and disturb their hate crimes. The KKK was busted in this fashion and leaders jailed. SPLF sued the entire body of Klansmen. Lawsuits against these "Christian" homeland terrorists is just waiting to happen, imo.
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The Real Logos
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:02 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:44 am Posts: 1361 Location: Member #240 in the Foothills of the Spice-laden Mountains.
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Bad FundaGelical!!!! Bad!! NO!! 
_________________ The fate of the country does not depend on how you vote. The worst man is as strong as the best at that game.....it depends instead on what kind of man you drop from your chamber into the street every morning. -- Henry David Thoreau
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Clean Sword
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:16 am |
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:23 am Posts: 197
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I don't believe that a person has a right to murder another person either. Hey...we all agree! clean'
_________________ The Main thing is to Keep the main thing the Main Thing....
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The Real Logos
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:15 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:44 am Posts: 1361 Location: Member #240 in the Foothills of the Spice-laden Mountains.
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We agree, but you have a problem in that you choose to viciously and loudly libel innocent people by using your own perverted and false definition of murder--thus encouraging other pathetic Neanderthals of your ilk to shoot people. You are the problem. Grow up. Pax! 
_________________ The fate of the country does not depend on how you vote. The worst man is as strong as the best at that game.....it depends instead on what kind of man you drop from your chamber into the street every morning. -- Henry David Thoreau
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kiwimac
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:53 am |
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:28 pm Posts: 61 Location: Deepest, Darkest NZ
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_________________ Paradise on my right, Hell on my left and the Angel of Death behind. Orange Catholic Bible.
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Clean Sword
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:44 pm |
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:23 am Posts: 197
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The Real Logos wrote: We agree, but you have a problem in that you choose to viciously and loudly libel innocent people by using your own perverted and false definition of murder--thus encouraging other pathetic Neanderthals of your ilk to shoot people. You are the problem. Grow up. Pax!  MURDER, FIRST DEGREE - In order for someone to be found guilty of first degree murder the government must prove that the person killed another person; the person killed the other person with malice aforethought; and the killing was premeditated. To kill with malice aforethought means to kill either deliberately and intentionally or recklessly with extreme disregard for human life. Premeditation means with planning or deliberation. The amount of time needed for premeditation of a killing depends on the person and the circumstances. It must be long enough, after forming the intent to kill, for the killer to have been fully conscious of the intent and to have considered the killing. First-degree murder in California includes a killing that is "willful, deliberate, and premeditated," or that is committed in the perpetration, or attempt to perpetrate, certain felonies, including burglary, and not including the petty offense of shoplifting. Cal. Penal Code S 189. http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m053.htmThis definition of murder is compatible with the murdering of a baby in the mothers' womb. Your hate filled post is irrelevant to the conversation. Do you actually think that I care what your opinion is about me? It has been said many times that if you don't have a defense, you attack the poster....You can't defend murdering an innocent baby, so you mindlessly blather on about so called neanderthals. It is the "neanderthals" Logos, who insist on killing defenseless babies. clean'
_________________ The Main thing is to Keep the main thing the Main Thing....
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The Real Logos
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:14 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:44 am Posts: 1361 Location: Member #240 in the Foothills of the Spice-laden Mountains.
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Fact: A fetus is not a baby.....not legally considered a "person." You have broken with reality to feed your hate and religious bigotry. If there were any merit to your argument (your perverted and false definition of murder) all abortionists and their clients would be in prison. You think like an adolescent.....as do most FundaGelicals. You do not realize that there has been an actual murder in this case and that you (with your hate-speech) have contributed to that tragic death. Grow up. Pax! 
_________________ The fate of the country does not depend on how you vote. The worst man is as strong as the best at that game.....it depends instead on what kind of man you drop from your chamber into the street every morning. -- Henry David Thoreau
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Clean Sword
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:30 pm |
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:23 am Posts: 197
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The Real Logos wrote: Fact: A fetus is not a baby.....not legally considered a "person." You have broken with reality to feed your hate and religious bigotry. If there were any merit to your argument (your perverted and false definition of murder) all abortionists and their clients would be in prison. You think like an adolescent.....as do most FundaGelicals. You do not realize that there has been an actual murder in this case and that you (with your hate-speech) have contributed to that tragic death. Grow up. Pax!  There is considerable disagreement whether a fetus is or is not legally a person. If so, shouldn't we err on the side of caution? Shouldn't we at least consider the possibility that it's a baby rather than a fetus? Who determines whether a fetus is a person? Do medical professionals determine it or lawmakers? Lawyers couldn't possibly know. But, there is no consensus between doctors either. Secondly, you say that abortionists would be in prison if it was illegal. I didn't say abortion is illegal. You can pass a law to make any abhorrent activity legal. You could de-criminalize rape or robbery, but does that make it ok? Just because something is made legal, it doesn't make it a good thing to do. It seems that pro abortionists try to de-humanize a baby by calling it a fetus. Then their conscience is clear because a destroying a fetus isn't really killing a baby, is it? I realize that there have been millions of murders over the last forty years. But, I don't distinguish between an adult and a baby. You do...and you have to live with that, unfortunately, and aborted baby doesn't have that option. clean'
_________________ The Main thing is to Keep the main thing the Main Thing....
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The Real Logos
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:27 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:44 am Posts: 1361 Location: Member #240 in the Foothills of the Spice-laden Mountains.
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Quote: There is considerable disagreement whether a fetus is or is not legally a person. FundaGelicals are constantly disagreeing with reality, but--there is ZERO disagreement as far as the law is concerned. The law is clear. Abortion is not murder. That is crystal clear. Your thinking is muddy. Quote: Secondly, you say that abortionists would be in prison if it was illegal. No, I didn't. I said if your argument that abortion is MURDER had any merit, the abortionists and their clients would be in prison. You have made up your own definition of murder and by spouting your ignorance you encourage other Neanderthals of your ilk to shoot innocent people. That makes YOU the real murderer. Grow up. Pax! 
_________________ The fate of the country does not depend on how you vote. The worst man is as strong as the best at that game.....it depends instead on what kind of man you drop from your chamber into the street every morning. -- Henry David Thoreau
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Clean Sword
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:39 am |
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:23 am Posts: 197
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The Real Logos wrote: Quote: There is considerable disagreement whether a fetus is or is not legally a person. FundaGelicals are constantly disagreeing with reality, but--there is ZERO disagreement as far as the law is concerned. The law is clear. Abortion is not murder. That is crystal clear. Your thinking is muddy. Quote: Secondly, you say that abortionists would be in prison if it was illegal. No, I didn't. I said if your argument that abortion is MURDER had any merit, the abortionists and their clients would be in prison. You have made up your own definition of murder and by spouting your ignorance you encourage other Neanderthals of your ilk to shoot innocent people. That makes YOU the real murderer. Grow up. Pax!  very clever Logos. You took my statement about a disagreement on a a fetus on being a person, and turned it around to a disagreement about the law of murder. I gave a legal definition of the law of murder. Maybe you have your own definition.. If so, let's have it. Is there a law that states that a fetus is not a person? If so, let's have it. And even if there is, what qualifications does such a person have to make such a determination? So, if no such determination has been agreed upon by the medical community, and there hasn't been, how can you say that abortion is not murder? You cannot...you're just reading from the same teleprompter as your messiah Obama. I don't condone the murder of Tiller. I don't condone the murder of anyone. But, Tiller performed late term abortions on thousands of women. In other words, Tiller himself was a mass murderer. He was anything but an innocent person. You can rave on about who is innocent all you want. Then tell me who is more innocent than a baby. Tiller didn't didn't hesitate a moment in jamming a pair of scissors in the back of thousands of babies skulls. Rave on, but be thankful that your mother didn't visit Dr. Tiller or his ilk when she was pregnant with you. Clean'
_________________ The Main thing is to Keep the main thing the Main Thing....
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Roselyn
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:13 am |
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:57 am Posts: 1558
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It doesn't matter CS whether you think the fetus is a person or not. What matters is the laws that make abortion legal.
For the church, abortion in the world should not matter due to the church being separate from the world. Instruction for the church body is to take care of its own. This separation of church from state is what Christians refuse to accept. Christians want to force their religions anti-abortion beliefs (because Christians have no laws of Moses), and their religion cannot any longer enforce its judgment into society. If Christians do not believe abortion should be part of their Christian body of Christ, then they should not allow members a continued existence among themselves, the Christian woman who has an abortion should be kicked out of the church. That's as simple as it gets. However, Christians continue to overlook their evildoer members who commit offenses against their stated church policy[against Christ]. Why is that? Why do these same Christians leave their church body and its interest in Christ, go into the world and attempt to convict non Christians of a crime? Does this make any sense?
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Roselyn
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:29 am |
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:57 am Posts: 1558
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CS, if you're a Christian, do you understand your place in the world? Do you understand that Christ separated you from the world, (according to your belief in Christ)? With this separation into an independent body of people from the people of the world, do you understand why you should not concern yourself with what the world outside your church body does?
The reason this is important for you to understand is this: IF your Christian brothers continue to invade society with your Christian beliefs, eventually and soon, imo, your own church body will by necessity be invaded by people you detest and with laws you've helped to enforce on them will be likewise enforced on you. This is what you want? Is it what Christ intended for his body membership? That's the risk Christians are taking, and they will lose. It cannot be helped as they are pushing for their own demiss.
So, it's up to you. Death to the body of Christ or life in his name.
I think you should read your church administrative policy as it is plainly laid out in your bible.
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Clean Sword
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Post subject: Re: George Tiller Murdered at Wichita Church Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:12 am |
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:23 am Posts: 197
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Roselyn wrote: CS, if you're a Christian, do you understand your place in the world? Do you understand that Christ separated you from the world, (according to your belief in Christ)? With this separation into an independent body of people from the people of the world, do you understand why you should not concern yourself with what the world outside your church body does?
The reason this is important for you to understand is this: IF your Christian brothers continue to invade society with your Christian beliefs, eventually and soon, imo, your own church body will by necessity be invaded by people you detest and with laws you've helped to enforce on them will be likewise enforced on you. This is what you want? Is it what Christ intended for his body membership? That's the risk Christians are taking, and they will lose. It cannot be helped as they are pushing for their own demiss.
So, it's up to you. Death to the body of Christ or life in his name.
I think you should read your church administrative policy as it is plainly laid out in your bible. I appreciate your concern for the christian community. But, a Bible scholar such as yourself should know that Jesus told the church to go into all the world and preach the gospel. He didn't tell them to stay in their churches. People don't want to hear the truth about their immoral lifestyles. It makes them uncomfortable, so they attack the church. They don't mind when the church stays within it's four walls. No threat there. But, let the church leave the building, and it's all out war....Why are the left wingers so afraid of the church? Because it exposes them for who they really are. Gods' people have outlasted Pharaohs..Roman rulers, Hitlers' murderous regime, and they will outlast the babbling of the present left wing kooks. But, no condolences are necessary at this time...You can put our obituary up..I don't think we will need it. clean'
_________________ The Main thing is to Keep the main thing the Main Thing....
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