XnForums

A PHONE CONVERSATION WITH A MUSLIM MISSIONARY

A Muslim missionary called me on my ministry phone in response to my newspaper ad “HELL IS NOT ENDLESS.”
(I have sent out many hundreds of packets of literature to people who responded to these ads that I have put in two of Toronto’s largest newspapers since 1981.)

The Muslim missionary said “Unless you convert to Islam you WILL go to hell.”

I said, “That’s what some Christians say if I don’t convert to Christianity.”

He said, “But the difference is that Islam has the truth.”

I said, “That’s what some Christians say about their beliefs.”

He said, “After you die you will learn that the Koran is the word of God and Islam has the truth.”

I said, “I guess I’ll just have to wait until then to find out for sure.”

He said, “But it will be too late for you then.”

I laughed and said, “That’s exactly what some Christians say.”

I don’t think he thought it was funny.

I then expected him to say what a Mormon missionary said to me in Montreal. “At the judgment, as you are being cast into hell, I will point my finger at you and say, ‘I told you so. I gave you a chance but you didn’t take it and now it’s too late’.”

It seems that we are supposed to believe that millions of Muslims, by sheer “accident” of birth, are born into a belief system that teaches their children that even to consider Christianity to be the truth will land them in an eternity of suffering in hell.

I believe that the horrific false doctrine of endless suffering in hell causes more suffering here on earth than any other idea that people believe. That is why it gives me such great pleasure to offer people the urls that contain irrefutable evidence that the Bible does not support such a concept of God.

Just Google up TENTMAKER and use the search engine at the top of the front page. Type in a key word from any argument or Bible verse and ten articles will appear refuting the idea that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation. Then click to the next page and ten more articles will appear, and so on and so on for many pages.
http://www.tentmaker.org/

Also Google up THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
or
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
to find A LOT of scriptural evidence that God has both the ability and the intention to eventually save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute ... hrist.html

Funny, we can't seem to attract many people to post here, but we can still get the cuckoos.

I'm a bird lover myself.

I've never heard of that.

I've heard of the sheep lovers in Australia.

To each his own and have fun.

Spamming this place is really a waste of your time.

There's only 14 people left here and they're all way smarter than you.

(All except Roselyn...I almost forgot her.)

OK I'll move on.
I have unchecked "Notify me when a reply is posted"
Thanks for not deleting my links
From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada

People that write endless diatribes via "hit and run" methods secretly know that their paradigm is an illusion.
However this illusion provides them some form of comfort by covering up inadequacies they are afflicted by.

When someone attempts to believe a lie/s the logic centres of the mind fight to dismiss it as irrelevant data. So only by shear repetition of this lie damaged aspects of his mind fight back to keep the lie alive. Hence the need for such people to bombard forums, attend gatherings of like minded individuals and (otherwise on a less formal note) piss off the general public.

By way of example Roger Tutt does not truly believe one word of his statements.
Roger Tutt is a living lie.

I happen to think that the doctrine of "Hell" does a lot of good.

People who fear hell behave themselves......they have a reason to be good.

It is only among "Christians" saved by "Grace" where it can do no good.

Since they don't fear Hell.......they just keep on invading the space of the poor and weak and killing them and taking their stuff.

What are you going to DO with people like that?

Pax!

I'm re-evaluating my former disgust with the doctrine of hell. Almost every religion has some form of this idea and I don't think the universalist's interpretation is any more correct than the Eternal Torment people's theory. I really just try and reserve judgment now-a-days. I try to be less dogmatic one way or the other. Whatever God does, I have to believe it is the right thing because I don't have all the facts at my disposal. To call God a tyrant and to say that it is unjust, as I used to do, is not very wise in my current estimation.

People who fear consequence of their bad behavior behave themselves and are called good citizens. The lack of fear is seen most often in stupid people who haven't considered the consequences of their bad behavior.

So, imo, this lack of fear of man and mans punishment in death is why we have overflowing prisons that are cities unto themselves. People have been known to commit crimes just so they can go there. Our prison system is one of the best run drug traffic in-and-out operations in the world today. Highly organized, and well guarded by political elete in Washington.

Check out how much the stimulus plan will help prisons and compare it to what law enforcement will receive to protect you from the bad guys.

I was invited back by management today to keep posting.

Her is a good response to the above message IMHO.
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/DoesntHell ... Moral.html

I was invited back by management today to keep posting.

GOD THE “JUDGE”

Unlike humans with their so very limited desire and ability to actually "reform" criminals in a reformatory, God, the "Judge," has no limit to the scope of both His DESIRE (born of the fact that He IS love personified not just loving), and His ABILITY to actually achieve reformation in the heart of the sinner because of what Christ accomplished for all by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross.

God the "Judge," has the desire, the ability, and the determination, to sooner or later, successfully save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved.

This is the kind of God that we universal transformationists see in a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... slove.html

I was invited by management today to keep posting

Here is why I don't think I am "a living lie"

Anyone is welcome to believe anything they want to about what the Bible teaches.

People who can love an “eternal torment” or “annihilationist” god will not be interested in the following information

Copy and paste the following into Google.

THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY
http://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

But people who cannot love an “eternal torment” or “annihilationist” god will
discover that all of the arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation have been refuted in the following links.

Copy and paste one of the following titles into Google

THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm

ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm

BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr ... ained.html

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/index.html

INFORMATION ON HELL AND UNIVERSAL SALVATION
http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html

CHART OF GOD’S PLANS FOR THE AGES OF TIME
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

Also Google up TENTMAKER and at the top of the front page type a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage into the search engine. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation. Then click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages. The link to TENTMAKER is
http://www.tentmaker.org/

I was invited back today by management to keep posting.

Here is why I still think that God would be a tyrant and unjust if He sustained anyone alive in an inescapable state of eternal suffering or let them actually WANT to suffer forever instead at some point reach out for the salvation that Jesus has provided.

THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY
http://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

At the risk of causing you another breakdown, God cannot exist without men who imagine him to be. That's why you don't read about the Hebrew god until at least 5000 years after Egyptians conquered the middle east and the clan of goat herding Hebrews invented their ancestry.

My breakdown was caused by not being able to successfully cope with the idea that the Bible teaches that God will let anyone suffer forever. Once I learned that the Bible does not teach that, my recovery was certain. Now I believe in a God Who will eventually change all evil and suffering into something better that it happened. Then when evil and suffering has taught all the lessons that God wants us to learn from them, God will irradicate all evil and suffering out of existence.

Dr. Leslie Weatherhead expressed how I think now when he wrote

“God’s purposes are so vast and glorious, beyond all guessing now, that when they are achieved and consummated, all our sufferings and sorrows of today, even the agonies that nearly break our faith, the disasters that well nigh overwhelm us, shall, seen from that fair country where God’s age long dreams come true, bulk as little as bulk now the pieces of a broken toy upon a nursery floor, over which, thinking that all our little world was in ruins, we cried ourselves to sleep.”